Ali Sina VS. Muhammad Al Assadi
အရမ္းေကာင္းတဲ့ Debate တစ္ခုပါ။ Ali Sina ဆုိတာ မြတ္ဆလင္ ေဟာင္းတစ္ေယာက္ပါ။ သူက မြတ္ဆလင္ ဆန္႔က်င္ေရးကုိ တက္ၾကြဆုံးလုပ္ေနတဲ့ သူေတြထဲက တစ္ေယာက္လည္းျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ အခု Debate မွာ မြတ္ဆလင္ေတြ Allah ယုံၾကည္ေနတဲ့အဆင့္ဟာ ကေလးတစ္ေယာက္အဆင့္ပဲ ျဖစ္ေၾကာင္း Ali Sina က ဟာသေလးနဲ႔ တေယာ္ထားတာျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ မြတ္ဆလင္ေတြဟာ တကယ္ကုိ ငေၾကာင္ အစစ္ေတြပါ။ သူတုိ႔ကုိ ေလးစားတဲ့သူေတြကေတာ့ ႏုိင္ငံေရးသမားေတြပဲ ရွိပါတယ္။ ကဲ.. ဖတ္ၾကည့္ပါဦး (အညိဳေရာင္ျခယ္ထားတဲ့ စာေတြကေတာ့ Muhammad Al Assadi ရဲ့ ေျပာဆုိခ်က္ေတြျဖစ္ျပီး အနက္ေရာင္စာေတြကေတာ့ Ali Sina ရဲ့ စကားေတြျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ )
Dear Mr. Al Assadi.
I am here to prove Islam is false. My belief is irrelevant to our discussion. What if I tell you I believe in Bugs Bunny and you find it ridiculous. Does this prove Muhammad was a messenger of God?
You want to debate with me and presumably you are a scholar, but the first thing you want to do is to engage in the tu quoque logical fallacy and instead of proving Muhammad’s claim or refuting my charges against him you want to attack my belief? As I told you, I worship Bugs Bunny. No kidding. I don’t watch TV except half an hour for the news and the Bugs Bunny. This is what I do in lieu of salat. Please spare us proving that Bugs Bunny does not exist. How can he not exist when you can see his holy picture with your own eyes? Furthermore, the biggest proof is his own word, Just as you think the biggest proof of Muhammad's claim is his own claim, I also believe because Bugs Bunny has made this claim to be the God, that claim is the biggest proof. I don't care if you believe or not. To you, your religion, to me mine. If you disbelieve, you will burn in hellfire and will be squeezed in your grave, until your bones crush. Now, let us get to the business and talk about Muhammad. My challenge is: either prove logically that Muhammad was a messenger of God, or disprove my charges against him. The fact that "99% of the population of the planet believe in Lord”, is no proof to me. There was a time that 100% of the population of the world believed that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Despite this unanimous consensus their belief was false. This is another logical fallacy called argumentum and numerum. This fallacy says that something must be true because many people believe in it. I never believed in what others believe without proof. I have seen the miracles of Bugs Bunny and that is enough for me to become a believer. However since the faith in Bugs Bunny (pbuh) is not proselytizing, I don’t care to prove it to you. Only those who have pure hearts will believe in him. 100% of the children believe in him and children have pure hearts. This is even a bigger percentage than your lousy 99%. What more proof you need? Let us compare your proofs with mine.
This chart shows that there are more proofs for Bugs Bunny than for Allah.
Furthermore I KNOW Bugs Bunny exists and I pity all those who don't believe in him. Your hearts are sealed. This is one more proof. It makes no difference whether I tell you or not, you won't believe.
Your faith is proselytizing. Not only that! It also wants to impose itself on others by force. Using force is called argumentum as baculum and that is another logical fallacy. You must come up with a logical proof - something I can't refute or use in favor of Bugs Bunny.
Spare us also your proofs about the existence of God. Since 99% of the population already believe in him, just concentrate on Muhammad and prove that he was a messenger of that God. 80% of the world population don't believe in Muhammad.
I am glad to be the source of entertainment for you. This is what my religion teaches me.
It is okay if you don’t believe in Hadith or call the history of Muhammad's life "stories". Show us that the Quran is the word of God. However you must also prove that Muhammad existed without relying on hadith or Sira. If you make any claim about Muhammad that is not in the Quran, I will object. If you reject the haidth and the Sira, you must tell us where did you learn about Muhammad and first prove that such person existed. You can't hold me to something that you yourself don't intend to be held to.
If your responses are logical and convincing, all our readers will see you are right and will stop visiting my site. That will be your victory. Whether I admit defeat or not, is not important anymore. I will be discredited for good.
Well, one of the reasons that the Quran is false is this very verse 2:2. The claim that there is no doubt in the Quran is a patent lie. Today four out of five people in the world doubt the Quran otherwise they would have become Muslims. Here is the first proof that the Quran is lying. The next thing this verse says is: “That book” guides the righteous ones, (those who guard against evil).
ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ
The righteous ones are already guided. They do not need guidance. Those who are lost need guidance but the Quran can't help them. So the Quran is redundant. It is a useless book by its own admission.
Also there is another elemental logical error in this verse. It says dalikal kitab "THAT book". Which book? It can’t be the Quran. If it was referring to the Quran, it should have said: hadal kitab "this book". Are we to presume that Allah does not know the difference between this and that?
There you have it: Three errors in one short sentence right from the start.
Apart from all this, you are engaging in circular reasoning. The fact that the Quran says it is the word of God is no proof to us. If the claim of Bugs Bunny to his own truth is no proof for you, the claim of Muhammad to his own prophethood is also no proof to us. I say Muhammad was a liar and his book is a book of lies. What he says in his book can’t be proof for those of us who do not believe in that book. You confuse claims with proofs. Circular reasoning is also a logical fallacy. If nothing, at the end of this debate we will learn a lot about logical fallacies from a master.
Okay! One by one! It's a deal.
I don’t have to insult Muhammad. Just telling what he did and said is worse than insult. For example he raided, raped and looted. He was a marauder, a rapist and a thief. Why I need to insult him when just stating the facts is worse than insults?
Thank you for comforting me, I was becoming very afraid. But please keep your rudeness to yourself. I have no time to debate with rude people. Your friend who asked me to debate with you said you are a scholar. If you are a scholar, you have no need to rely on rudeness. If you want to be rude, maybe you should find someone else of your own class.
No, I am not running yet. although I begin to see there is no point in engaging with you. This friend of yours said you are a scholar. I saw no evidence of that so far. The attitude is not scholarly and then the offer to engage in rudeness reminds me of Muhammad's challenge to his opponents to engage in a round of cursing to see who is telling the truth. 3:61 Maybe that constitutes poof for you, but not for me. Trying to overpower your opponent by rudeness and personal attacks is called ad hominem and that is also a logical fallacy. If rudeness could be used as a substitute to proof the most convincing people would be the jail inmates.
Also please introduce yourself so we know you are somebody notable. Mohammad Al Assadi does not tell me anything. There are hundreds of Mohammad Assadis. Incidentally we debated with one of them three years ago and he behaved like a scholar to the end. So if you want to debate, tell us who you are. I don’t debate with just anybody, especially people who want to come to the ring armed with rudeness. Not that I am snob, but I have to prioritize my time. There are a billion Muslims out there and it is technically impossible to debate with all of them. But you are welcome to join our forum and debate with friends there. They are just as knowledgeable as I am, if not more, and some of them may have time to debate with you. However make sure you hang your rudeness outside. Our debates are characterized by bluntness but we have no tolerance for rudeness. If rudeness is your forte, take your challenge elsewhere.
THE END
အရမ္းေကာင္းတဲ့ Debate တစ္ခုပါ။ Ali Sina ဆုိတာ မြတ္ဆလင္ ေဟာင္းတစ္ေယာက္ပါ။ သူက မြတ္ဆလင္ ဆန္႔က်င္ေရးကုိ တက္ၾကြဆုံးလုပ္ေနတဲ့ သူေတြထဲက တစ္ေယာက္လည္းျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ အခု Debate မွာ မြတ္ဆလင္ေတြ Allah ယုံၾကည္ေနတဲ့အဆင့္ဟာ ကေလးတစ္ေယာက္အဆင့္ပဲ ျဖစ္ေၾကာင္း Ali Sina က ဟာသေလးနဲ႔ တေယာ္ထားတာျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ မြတ္ဆလင္ေတြဟာ တကယ္ကုိ ငေၾကာင္ အစစ္ေတြပါ။ သူတုိ႔ကုိ ေလးစားတဲ့သူေတြကေတာ့ ႏုိင္ငံေရးသမားေတြပဲ ရွိပါတယ္။ ကဲ.. ဖတ္ၾကည့္ပါဦး (အညိဳေရာင္ျခယ္ထားတဲ့ စာေတြကေတာ့ Muhammad Al Assadi ရဲ့ ေျပာဆုိခ်က္ေတြျဖစ္ျပီး အနက္ေရာင္စာေတြကေတာ့ Ali Sina ရဲ့ စကားေတြျဖစ္ပါတယ္။ )
" Mr. Sina Ali
My name is Mohammad Al Assadi, I am a Muslim, I heard about your challenge, how you are Bashing Islam with evil talk, and challenging if anyone can defeat your ill logic, you will quit. I accept the challenge, now in order for us to proceed; I need to make few things clear if you do not mind.
(1) you are attacking with complete evil all what I believe in, then that should give me rights to ask you: what belief do you follow, I know it is not Islam, I wish and I pray you are not from those Knuckle Heads/brainless Atheists who do not believe in the existence of the LORD, while 99% of the Population of this planet tell them how there is one no deny. AS I said, I am a Muslim, and fair is fair, you do need to introduce what you believe in if you do not mind.
Dear Mr. Al Assadi.
I am here to prove Islam is false. My belief is irrelevant to our discussion. What if I tell you I believe in Bugs Bunny and you find it ridiculous. Does this prove Muhammad was a messenger of God?
You want to debate with me and presumably you are a scholar, but the first thing you want to do is to engage in the tu quoque logical fallacy and instead of proving Muhammad’s claim or refuting my charges against him you want to attack my belief? As I told you, I worship Bugs Bunny. No kidding. I don’t watch TV except half an hour for the news and the Bugs Bunny. This is what I do in lieu of salat. Please spare us proving that Bugs Bunny does not exist. How can he not exist when you can see his holy picture with your own eyes? Furthermore, the biggest proof is his own word, Just as you think the biggest proof of Muhammad's claim is his own claim, I also believe because Bugs Bunny has made this claim to be the God, that claim is the biggest proof. I don't care if you believe or not. To you, your religion, to me mine. If you disbelieve, you will burn in hellfire and will be squeezed in your grave, until your bones crush. Now, let us get to the business and talk about Muhammad. My challenge is: either prove logically that Muhammad was a messenger of God, or disprove my charges against him. The fact that "99% of the population of the planet believe in Lord”, is no proof to me. There was a time that 100% of the population of the world believed that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Despite this unanimous consensus their belief was false. This is another logical fallacy called argumentum and numerum. This fallacy says that something must be true because many people believe in it. I never believed in what others believe without proof. I have seen the miracles of Bugs Bunny and that is enough for me to become a believer. However since the faith in Bugs Bunny (pbuh) is not proselytizing, I don’t care to prove it to you. Only those who have pure hearts will believe in him. 100% of the children believe in him and children have pure hearts. This is even a bigger percentage than your lousy 99%. What more proof you need? Let us compare your proofs with mine.
| Proofs for Allah | Proofs for Bugs Bunny |
| One billion people believe in Allah | All the children of the world believe in Bugs Bunny. They are more than one billion. |
| The believers in Allah don't have pure hearts. Many of them are terrorists. | The believers in Bugs Bunny have pure hearts. |
| The believers in Allah give more importance to faith than to reason. | ditto |
| The religion of Allah makes people angry, terrorists, causes death and makes many mourn.. | The religion of Bugs Bunny makes people laugh and makes everyone happy. |
| Allah testified to his own truth in his revealed book sent to his messenger. | I have received a book of revelation from Bugs Bunny who testified to his own truth also and he said there is no doubt in it. |
| Nobody has seen Allah | Everybody has seen Bugs Bunny |
| Allah plots and plays tricks 3:54 | ditto |
| If you don't believe in Allah he will send you to his hell where you will be burned. Allah is very cruel. | If you don't believe in Bugs Bunny, he will send you to another room where you can't watch his shows, no ice-cream and no popcorns. Bugs Bunny is not as cruel as Allah. Just a little. |
This chart shows that there are more proofs for Bugs Bunny than for Allah.
Furthermore I KNOW Bugs Bunny exists and I pity all those who don't believe in him. Your hearts are sealed. This is one more proof. It makes no difference whether I tell you or not, you won't believe.
Your faith is proselytizing. Not only that! It also wants to impose itself on others by force. Using force is called argumentum as baculum and that is another logical fallacy. You must come up with a logical proof - something I can't refute or use in favor of Bugs Bunny.
Spare us also your proofs about the existence of God. Since 99% of the population already believe in him, just concentrate on Muhammad and prove that he was a messenger of that God. 80% of the world population don't believe in Muhammad.
(2) Let me make something so clear from the very start, you do entertain me a lot, that is why I wish to relieve you from sweating a lot going to the books of Hadeeth, or any other story book, I do not value any of such, so please save yourself the trouble, do not tell me how much of an expert you became in the nonsense of those books, and let us be serious, I know you have a lot against the Qur’aan, let us correct your Handicap and how you are unable to understand that. You went to great limits finding what you think is wrong with the Qur’aan, I wonder where the wrong is, in that or in your mind?
I am glad to be the source of entertainment for you. This is what my religion teaches me.
It is okay if you don’t believe in Hadith or call the history of Muhammad's life "stories". Show us that the Quran is the word of God. However you must also prove that Muhammad existed without relying on hadith or Sira. If you make any claim about Muhammad that is not in the Quran, I will object. If you reject the haidth and the Sira, you must tell us where did you learn about Muhammad and first prove that such person existed. You can't hold me to something that you yourself don't intend to be held to.
I know how your lack of knowledge had a lot to do with what you suffer from, let me help you to understand for a change, but I do not promise to change your heart, you know why? Jews came to Muhammad PBUH asking questions, promising to believe in his message if he does, when he answered they showed how they lied. I do not believe you will change your mind, by shutting your site, but it is enough for me to defeat your ill knowledge and twisted brain about the Noble Qur’aan.How do you know Muhammad’s answers to the Jews were correct? Maybe the Jews asked questions that Muhammad could not answer and that is why they left. This sounds more logical. It is very unlikely that people receive convincing answers from someone claiming to be a messenger of God and despite that do not believe. There is much to lose and this make no sense at all. Today Muslims give answers that are ridiculous and unconvincing; yet they beat their chests and claim victory. Maybe they learned this from their prophet.
If your responses are logical and convincing, all our readers will see you are right and will stop visiting my site. That will be your victory. Whether I admit defeat or not, is not important anymore. I will be discredited for good.
(3) Now let me tell you why I will not debate with you the books of Hadeeth, or any other nonsense in Muslims’ or non Muslims’ hands apart from the Noble Qur’aan: Allah says in many places, including Ayah 2:2: This is the book no doubt about it, since Allah showed how only the Noble Qur’aan has not doubts, since Allah said how this is the Book, then all others are not worthwhile, and do not deserve to be defended, they are man made, not upon the orders of Allah, or the orders of His prophet PBUH. A bunch of men decided to write, fine, I understand that, but do not wish to consider in any discussion since Allah made it clear how they are full with doubts, and not THE BOOK that I need to look at.
Well, one of the reasons that the Quran is false is this very verse 2:2. The claim that there is no doubt in the Quran is a patent lie. Today four out of five people in the world doubt the Quran otherwise they would have become Muslims. Here is the first proof that the Quran is lying. The next thing this verse says is: “That book” guides the righteous ones, (those who guard against evil).
ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ
The righteous ones are already guided. They do not need guidance. Those who are lost need guidance but the Quran can't help them. So the Quran is redundant. It is a useless book by its own admission.
Also there is another elemental logical error in this verse. It says dalikal kitab "THAT book". Which book? It can’t be the Quran. If it was referring to the Quran, it should have said: hadal kitab "this book". Are we to presume that Allah does not know the difference between this and that?
There you have it: Three errors in one short sentence right from the start.
Apart from all this, you are engaging in circular reasoning. The fact that the Quran says it is the word of God is no proof to us. If the claim of Bugs Bunny to his own truth is no proof for you, the claim of Muhammad to his own prophethood is also no proof to us. I say Muhammad was a liar and his book is a book of lies. What he says in his book can’t be proof for those of us who do not believe in that book. You confuse claims with proofs. Circular reasoning is also a logical fallacy. If nothing, at the end of this debate we will learn a lot about logical fallacies from a master.
(4) I accept your challenge, I challenge you with the Noble Qur’aan, I will not [now] ask you to discuss one topic at the time, because you, like those like you have a serious problem reading and understanding, that is why I will tell you even if you dump on me a lot or miles of paper in debate, I will discuss one by one ignoring your lack of sincerity about discussing one by one. Now, if you did chose to be reasonable, which I seriously doubt, then we will discuss one by one, and things should be so good till the end Insha Allah, and till I show you how you need help so bad.
Okay! One by one! It's a deal.
(5) Now, I am not going to ask you to stop the idiocy in insulting Muhammad PBUH, no, I want to ask you please do Insult, I have a group of friends, who love to read this and make of you a laughing stock, so please do not try to be civilized I know you cannot afford such, insult Muhammad with all of your heart, my friends are jokers and silly comedians, like those who insult Muhammad, and they always wait to make your kind the topic of their laughter for the night. They will feel sad if you do not, or for a second you became reasonably intelligent, and stopped your nonsense in insulting a man who died 1425 years back.
I don’t have to insult Muhammad. Just telling what he did and said is worse than insult. For example he raided, raped and looted. He was a marauder, a rapist and a thief. Why I need to insult him when just stating the facts is worse than insults?
I hope now that I made few things clear, I hope you will not chicken out now, do not be afraid, I am a very nice man, but as your case is, I am rude unlimited like your kind that is all, so do not feel bad, you found someone who is like your kind. As you with your utter rudeness insult Islam and two billion Muslims and what they believe in, I too have done the same, and as rude as you are.
Thank you for comforting me, I was becoming very afraid. But please keep your rudeness to yourself. I have no time to debate with rude people. Your friend who asked me to debate with you said you are a scholar. If you are a scholar, you have no need to rely on rudeness. If you want to be rude, maybe you should find someone else of your own class.
I will expect you to run, but if you showed courage and come, let us start, I will wait to see what is the first thing you see wrong with the Qur’aan. I understand how you discussed this same with others, but please do not mind we re start. Please remember, the friend relaying this to you, has no part, and those are not his views about the same, he is just giving me a helping hand to by pass a block. "
No, I am not running yet. although I begin to see there is no point in engaging with you. This friend of yours said you are a scholar. I saw no evidence of that so far. The attitude is not scholarly and then the offer to engage in rudeness reminds me of Muhammad's challenge to his opponents to engage in a round of cursing to see who is telling the truth. 3:61 Maybe that constitutes poof for you, but not for me. Trying to overpower your opponent by rudeness and personal attacks is called ad hominem and that is also a logical fallacy. If rudeness could be used as a substitute to proof the most convincing people would be the jail inmates.
Also please introduce yourself so we know you are somebody notable. Mohammad Al Assadi does not tell me anything. There are hundreds of Mohammad Assadis. Incidentally we debated with one of them three years ago and he behaved like a scholar to the end. So if you want to debate, tell us who you are. I don’t debate with just anybody, especially people who want to come to the ring armed with rudeness. Not that I am snob, but I have to prioritize my time. There are a billion Muslims out there and it is technically impossible to debate with all of them. But you are welcome to join our forum and debate with friends there. They are just as knowledgeable as I am, if not more, and some of them may have time to debate with you. However make sure you hang your rudeness outside. Our debates are characterized by bluntness but we have no tolerance for rudeness. If rudeness is your forte, take your challenge elsewhere.
THE END
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